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P200 - Quatrini 250 vs Pinasco 250?


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Looking or help with two engine builds. Working on building a Small frame and Large frame engine for top speed only in a straight line. The top speed should be reached within 3 miles. So i am trying to find the Tallest gearing possible and if the chosen kits will have enough Torque to pull the gearing
 
- Large frame engine is a toss up. I dont know whether to go with the Quatrini 250 or maybe the Pinasco 250 engine. Does anyone have dyno numbers for either? Also any hints on best torque focused exhaust would be greatly appreciated.
 
I know these types of projects are costly but I want to also be as reasonable as possible price wise.
 
Thanks to anyone who can help point me in the right direction!
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Same as Gertax‘ questions in your other topic:

 

What are you up to and under which circumstances should this happen?

 

Do you have engineering skills and access to machines or should it mainly be p‘n‘p?

 

I guess you better melt those two topics into one and explain us more about the project itself.

 

 

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5 hours ago, alfonso said:

Same as Gertax‘ questions in your other topic:

 

What are you up to and under which circumstances should this happen?

 

Do you have engineering skills and access to machines or should it mainly be p‘n‘p?

 

I guess you better melt those two topics into one and explain us more about the project itself.

 

 

@alfonso

 

 

The scooters should be run at the Bonneville Salt flats 

 

Engineering and machines are reasonable but if what you mean is about making one off parts thats not really on the table.

 

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Yes. One off parts were in my mind.

 

@menke is working on a Bonneville project based on Lambretta.

 

The Quattrini should have more power out of the box. 

To get the same output, the 251 Pinasco will already need some modifications, but both should do the job.

 

Except the work on the cylinder itself, Pinasco will be more p‘n‘p than a Quattrini motor. 

 

How about BFA?

 

What top speed are you aiming for?

 

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251 out of the box:

 

251 with a lot of work (if all of this was necessary is not really sure, but there is no question about the results):

 

The whole story starts here:

(There are a lot of pics, translation should not be necessary to get a first image.)

 

Maybe the Quattrini guys can help me out with similar links?

@Motorhead @berlinwestside

@käthe 1963

Edited by alfonso
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3 miles are 4,8km?

topspeed on quartermile vespas is about 100mph and faster.

i think the main issue is to get an exhaust that overrevs. maybe with a little ignition help.

px engines are blessed with the weakest crank. thats the only plus point for pinasco (it uses the t5 crank).
the bfa one is stronger i guess.

 

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vor einer Stunde hat Motorhead folgendes von sich gegeben:

no, i dont want to be involved in distributing information about pinasco and tuning except for jokes.

 

Jounge. Die Frage war bezüglich Quattrini!

Edited by alfonso
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@cvjosh

 

Yo, hello,

 

Where are you located?

Depending on your class and regulating body maybe you could find some local assistance (in case you're in the Us or west coast) squeezing the best outta the engine?

Kind regards

 

Christiab

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6 hours ago, alfonso said:

Yes. One off parts were in my mind.

 

@menke is working on a Bonneville project based on Lambretta.

 

The Quattrini should have more power out of the box. 

To get the same output, the 251 Pinasco will already need some modifications, but both should do the job.

 

Except the work on the cylinder itself, Pinasco will be more p‘n‘p than a Quattrini motor. 

 

How about BFA?

 

What top speed are you aiming for?

 

@alfonso thanks for taking the time I greatly appreciate it. 

 

I think that the Quattrini would be the better choice based on the amount of altering the Pinasco will need to just get to Quattrini. Regardless both will need to be played with but if we take the time to do it, we would rather start two steps ahead than two back. 

 

The BFA engines are interesting but is a bit out of the price range :???: 

 

Speed needs to be a minimum of 100mph on the salt. We are thinking of working the Calculations and HP to theoretically do 120-125mph so that if we loose some on the day we will have a buffer to meet the goal.  

 

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1 hour ago, Yamawudri said:

@cvjosh

 

Yo, hello,

 

Where are you located?

Depending on your class and regulating body maybe you could find some local assistance (in case you're in the Us or west coast) squeezing the best outta the engine?

Kind regards

 

Christiab

Finding information about high end tuning items in California is a bit difficult. Polini, Malossi, Pinasco sure those things you can get some info on but its all about everyday use for most people. Not many people really give a shit about going to the salt and seeing how fast they can go. 

 

Although this forum is full of people who are crazier than we are and have tested a good amount of stuff that we would struggle to get out hands on with out cashing in our entire savings fund. 

 

We will be running out own tests of course to work out the kinks. The biggest thing we are trying to do is sort out what is worth buying and or not worth buying because having stuff shipped form the EU to the USA to just find out it doesn't work would be a bit painful. 

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Hi,

I'm pretty sure you're going to get the help you need in this forum, just keep the people here up to date with your build.

 

I think your decision to run a Quattrini Engine in this event is right.

There is quite experience around to create an engine with around 40rwhp.

Just because im curios, what´s your experience in Vespa engines?

 

Writing down your engine setup with items will help to figure it out, even where to order the stuff.

A good base might be the bundle from Kingwelle: Engine Case, 64mm Stroke crankshaft, 244 cylinder kit, ignition

 

 

 

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I dont know much about Salt Racing but you should definetly contact the Kingwelle guys! 
They are well known and experienced in building high end setups plus they won a lot of german drag races using their stuff. 
 

other experienced users especially in  quattrini for racing would be @witt25 or @Nico from Schall&Rauch

 

good luck and keep us updated :cheers:

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@cvjosh

 

My comment was not pointed towards initial choice of cylinder but more regarding experts in cylinder porting (partially also about the speed trials), of which you still have some Imho very good people in the Us.

 

All the best and kind regards

 

Christian

Edited by Yamawudri
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Wär mal dringend Zeit, dass sich einer der großen Drei??? hier einklinkt und Komponenten für einen brauchbaren Motor an den Start stellt ....
 

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On 1/25/2021 at 11:53 AM, MaRi said:

Hi,

I'm pretty sure you're going to get the help you need in this forum, just keep the people here up to date with your build.

 

I think your decision to run a Quattrini Engine in this event is right.

There is quite experience around to create an engine with around 40rwhp.

Just because im curios, what´s your experience in Vespa engines?

 

Writing down your engine setup with items will help to figure it out, even where to order the stuff.

A good base might be the bundle from Kingwelle: Engine Case, 64mm Stroke crankshaft, 244 cylinder kit, ignition

 

 

 

 

@MaRi i started riding vespas around 12 years ago and the guy i am working on this project with has been tuning/racing vespas and Lambretta since the 80's. The issue we have is that he is not a Internet person and also for what ever reason hates Forums. So here i am trying to gather all the info on current options and info form those who have been using the stuff. 

 

Thank you for the tip about Kingwelle. 

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@Yamawudri  all good. The guy i am working with on the project has been tuning scoters and racing them since the 80's. The thing is he stoped focusing on the stuff in the early 2000's so now we are diving back in to get the lay of the land so to say so we can build out own crazy engine. I appreciate all the help and tips from all of you though :) 

 

I as we get things going i will 100% keep everyone updated the best i can. 

 

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@cvjosh

 

All good no worries, dunno your scooter guy but rest assured that tuners  like Klemm or frank fast know a thing or two about two strokes as they have been doing it on a very very competitive and successful base for decades.

 

All the best.

 

Christian

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