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Dear friends,

 

First of all, I would like to sorry that I have to write this topic in English but because I am from outside of the EU, living in Latvia and just bought Vespa from Germany!

 

I have just got a Vespa about 2 weeks ago. Before paying, seller said complete with full documents,  show the picture around and sent me engine run clip. Everything seem nice and I agree to buy

and wait shipping about 1 week, arriving to Riga, Latvia. After arriving check everything what I can do eg. compare paper to chassis, read purchase agreement and inspect around. Then, I go for Vespa registration in Riga (CSDD) but the story is not so happy ending like everyone! After the document inspection, CSDD found that the document that I have Betriebserlaubnis is the cancelled one (issued in 2003) while the Germany side sent the information that there is a new Betriebserlaubnis (Dublicate one and issued in 2007) is the paper what Latvia side wants and I don't have it.

:crybaby:

 

Therefore, CSDD Latvia reject to register this PX80 here, if I dont have Betriebserlaubnis (Dublicate one and issued in 2007). 

After that I start to contact to the seller and tell about this situation and he seem to ignore and not active like before. He insist that the Betriebserlaubnis he gave me is the present one. So, now everything is stop now. I feel, he will block my contact to him soon too.  I can not check anything, call or ask, as I don't know German language and living in Latvia. Thanks, Google bring me here, this forum and have read the useful story with automatic translate! I hope you members may can give me some doors that I should get for this solution.

 

I have read many of same stories here but have some questions would like to list here if you may know the answer:

 

1. In my situation what is the first thing to do now? as I am outside of Germany (Document on hand only purchase agreement  and invalid Betriebserlaubnis)

2. From the many same problems say that the Vespa dealer can issue new one ? I saw the one that invalid with me seem not issue by Manufacturer. I also attached on this post.

3. If I decide to run the document myself in Germany, is it worth? Is there a process that the have to inspect the Vespa? 

4. What is the best way to solve this problem?

 

Lastly, I hope that there is some way to solve my problem from all your experience.

Thank you,

Tanagorn

n1.jpg

n2.jpg

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Could you post the pics again in higher quality?

It is not possible to read them, but I am sure that someone is able to help you with this.

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It is easy to get a new „Betriebserlaubnis“ from Piaggio Germany. Do you have an official dealer on hand in Latvia? If not, maybe Rita here in the forum can help.

But as said better pics would be great.




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I think the problem is that the green document - Betriebserlaubnis - is by law not valid anymore. It was replaced by - Fahrzeugschein - issued 2007 and that is missing. 

You should get this document from the seller - at least he should be able to get an official document stating that the document was lost if he does not have it anymore.

Did you get the Fahrzeugbrief with the purchase? If not it may be an illegal deal.

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb matzmann:

It is easy to get a new „Betriebserlaubnis“ from Piaggio Germany. Do you have an official dealer on hand in Latvia? If not, maybe Rita here in the forum can help.

 

 

I think, th e best way is to kontakt Rita, she knows all Possibilities .

 

Bearbeitet von oehli
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I think the problem is that the green document - Betriebserlaubnis - is by law not valid anymore. It was replaced by - Fahrzeugschein - issued 2007 and that is missing.  You should get this document from the seller - at least he should be able to get an official document stating that the document was lost if he does not have it anymore.

Did you get the Fahrzeugbrief with the purchase? If not it may be an illegal deal.

 

 

That’s wrong. The „Fahrzeugschein“ is only valid together with the „Betriebserlaubnis“ It contains the Numberplate and the owner of the vehicle. When the vehicle get‘s deregistered it’s not valid anymore and has no more use.

 

 

Better pictures please 8-)

 

 

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Hello and thank you everyone for comments!

 

Lately, I am now consulting situation with Rita which I have to thank you everyone recommend her for this situation. I feel like there is the way and solution after I found this forum.

According to question, I have got only the attached picture document "Betriebserlaubnis (found invalid)" and "Purchase Agreement". There is no Fahrzeugschein in the package.

 

As, I talked with the seller 2 days ago, he still insist this document is valid and now no read and reply any text I sent him anymore (Classic Story). 

 

Tanagorn C.

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You don‘t need the Fahrzeugschein anymore when the vehicle is no more registered, so everything is OK excempt the registration office did not stamp that it‘s not registered anymore.

 

Registering a PX 80 is a bit complicated with the EU Law which causes trouble very often.

 

 

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Yes, Riga. Very nice city. It was my last holidays witha analog camera in 2006...

 

The green paper is a "Gutachten". But with the other things documented on it, it is a "Betriebserlaubnis". That is total OK and original. I just wonder, why it has the year 2003, because the 80ccm class existed from 1981 to 1996. From 1996 to today it was converted to the 125ccm class. But OK. These classes are a special class called "Leichtkraftrad" (Bike with almost no power...). The "Betriebserlaubnis" is just a documentation of technical data and some additional data almost like a COC (Certificate of Conformity) nowadays. So normaly it is valid until you melt the bike. But to use the bike on the road, you need a plate e.g. with AC-CD 59 (AC = Aachen, City in Germany, like STD = Stade) even if it was "zulassungsfrei". So you drove arround with "Fahrzeugschein" and "Betriebserlaubnis" and you never had a "Fahrzeugbrief" = Brief, because it was a "Leichtkraftrad". If you did not want to use it any more, you gave the authorities ("Zulassungsstelle") back the plate and the "Fahrzeugschein". Therefore you got a "Abmeldebescheinigung", a receipt which says, that Mr. PX80OWNER gave back plate and "Fahrzeugschein". Often this little piece of paper gets lost because the owner does not understand that this peace of paper is important to bring the bike back on the road again. Nothing is done with the "Betriebserlaubnis" because it is just a technical description and belongs to the bike. Then the years come and go, I visit Riga and a lot of laws are changed. So the "Fahrzeugschein" changed its name to "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1" and the "Fahrzeugbrief" (which you never had because you have a "Leichkraftrad" without "Kraftfahrzeugbrief") changed its name to "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 2". So today you would drive around with a "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1" and the old "Betriebserlaubnis". If you then would take your bike from the road for a long time, you will keep the "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1", just marked as not valid any more, but needed to get it back on the road. Nothing will be done with the "Betriebserlaubnis".

If there should be really a newer Version to the "Betriebserlaubnis" from 2007 - an not just a confusion at CSDD because the laws for the "Leichtkrafräder" changed 2007 - , then the old owner can get problems, because if you have new papers and then find the old papers, you have to give back the old papers to the authorities!

But we will see what Rita will find out. She has a lot of experience with authorities.

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb PX80DREAM:

Yes, I think, now, I found that this Vespa used to be STD-WU 18 in the Betriebserlaubnis while in the Kaufvertrag written AC-CD 59

 

According to your „Beiblatt“ / „Betriebserlaubnis attached 1“, the last registration was in Aachen as AC-CD 59.

So Aachen is the right address to find out what happened.

 

 

(PX80DREAM hat mir die kompletten Dokumente zukommen lassen. Da war zusätzlich ein Beiblatt angehängt mit ein paar An- und Abmeldungen in Stade und der letzten Registrierung in Aachen, allerdings da ohne Abmeldebescheinigung.)

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11 hours ago, CDI said:

Yes, Riga. Very nice city. It was my last holidays witha analog camera in 2006...

 

The green paper is a "Gutachten". But with the other things documented on it, it is a "Betriebserlaubnis". That is total OK and original. I just wonder, why it has the year 2003, because the 80ccm class existed from 1981 to 1996. From 1996 to today it was converted to the 125ccm class. But OK. These classes are a special class called "Leichtkraftrad" (Bike with almost no power...). The "Betriebserlaubnis" is just a documentation of technical data and some additional data almost like a COC (Certificate of Conformity) nowadays. So normaly it is valid until you melt the bike. But to use the bike on the road, you need a plate e.g. with AC-CD 59 (AC = Aachen, City in Germany, like STD = Stade) even if it was "zulassungsfrei". So you drove arround with "Fahrzeugschein" and "Betriebserlaubnis" and you never had a "Fahrzeugbrief" = Brief, because it was a "Leichtkraftrad". If you did not want to use it any more, you gave the authorities ("Zulassungsstelle") back the plate and the "Fahrzeugschein". Therefore you got a "Abmeldebescheinigung", a receipt which says, that Mr. PX80OWNER gave back plate and "Fahrzeugschein". Often this little piece of paper gets lost because the owner does not understand that this peace of paper is important to bring the bike back on the road again. Nothing is done with the "Betriebserlaubnis" because it is just a technical description and belongs to the bike. Then the years come and go, I visit Riga and a lot of laws are changed. So the "Fahrzeugschein" changed its name to "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1" and the "Fahrzeugbrief" (which you never had because you have a "Leichkraftrad" without "Kraftfahrzeugbrief") changed its name to "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 2". So today you would drive around with a "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1" and the old "Betriebserlaubnis". If you then would take your bike from the road for a long time, you will keep the "Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil 1", just marked as not valid any more, but needed to get it back on the road. Nothing will be done with the "Betriebserlaubnis".

If there should be really a newer Version to the "Betriebserlaubnis" from 2007 - an not just a confusion at CSDD because the laws for the "Leichtkrafräder" changed 2007 - , then the old owner can get problems, because if you have new papers and then find the old papers, you have to give back the old papers to the authorities!

But we will see what Rita will find out. She has a lot of experience with authorities.

Thank for your information and this is very in detail, I hope and now I understand more thing  to my situation! :-D:-D:-D

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5 hours ago, alfonso said:

 

According to your „Beiblatt“ / „Betriebserlaubnis attached 1“, the last registration was in Aachen as AC-CD 59.

So Aachen is the right address to find out what happened.

 

 

(PX80DREAM sent me the complete documents, there was also a sheet attached with a few subscriptions and cancellations in Stade and the last registration in Aachen, but there without a certificate of departure.)

Tomorrow, I will try to contact with the https://serviceportal.aachen.de/suche/-/egov-bis-search/institution/46168 and let see.

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